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Analyse this
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jkacher
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Joined: 25 Dec 2003
Posts: 98
Location: Burbank, California

PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:48 pm    Post subject: Analyse this Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster


This position comes from many openings and it is crucial to know it.
Your challenge here is to analyse icon_idea.gif it (black moves first) and to give your conclusion as to the result.


Last edited by jkacher on Sat Oct 02, 2004 7:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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jkacher
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Joined: 25 Dec 2003
Posts: 98
Location: Burbank, California

PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

It has been 10 weeks since the challenge was made.
Some people replied (privately) that they would answer after the tournament.
Well - it is well after the tournament! icon_smile.gif

So what do you think? Is that a win, a draw, a loss?
Put your thinking caps on and analyse! icon_smile.gif
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Shotgun



Joined: 10 Apr 2004
Posts: 23
Location: Durham, North Carolina

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

It is a win!!!!

1. 2125 30:21 2. 1115 1611 3. 15:18 2218
4. 0911 18:09 5. 13:06 21:14 6. 10:17 2622
7. 0610 3026 8. 1014 2623 9. 0710 1916
10. 1115 2319 11. 15:24 20:27 12. 1015 2724
13. 1417 2419 14. 15:24 1611 15. 1721 1107
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jkacher
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Joined: 25 Dec 2003
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Location: Burbank, California

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

I just move 6.23-18 - how can you win?
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Shotgun



Joined: 10 Apr 2004
Posts: 23
Location: Durham, North Carolina

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

6. 10:17 2318 7. 0610 1208 8. 03:12 1814 Draw!!!
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jkacher
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Joined: 25 Dec 2003
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Location: Burbank, California

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

Hehehe, you are getting closer Shotgun!
But first there is plenty of a game at the moment you stopped - you should show the possible play after that;
And second - the stronger move was jump 8.11x4 - how do you draw after that?
And congratulations on your bravery to take up the challenge!
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jkacher
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Location: Burbank, California

PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 7:55 am    Post subject: email Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

Yesterday's email to all the players asking them to join in analysing the position produced a leader - Charlie Brown of Baltimore found several key moves! Yet he is not quite there yet - there is at least one line he did not solve yet - and we stayed at it till 2am in the morning!
So anyone still has a chance to jump in and steal the laurels by being first with the answer! Reminder - one needs to put their solution here on BB!

One more thing - I asked several players on VOG if they received the email and they said no. I asked them for their email addresses (how else can I send the emails?) and they did not respond. Being cautious is one thing. But not to the point of absurdity, cutting the very source of information they seek.
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Pecan



Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 9:17 am    Post subject: Analyse This! Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

The position is a draw!! I will give all the possibilities as I compile them.
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Pecan



Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:00 am    Post subject: Analyse This! Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

As I said earlier, the position is a draw position. Since White will be in the weaker position, we will discuss its draw.

1. 21-25 30x21
2. 11-15 16-11
3. 15x8 22-18
4. 8-11 18x9
5. 13x6 21x14
6. 10x17 23-18
7. 6-10 26-23!

At #7, the move 26-23! insures the draw for White. While there are many possibilities for both sides, with careful and percise moving, White can always secure the draw.

Eventually, white might have to sacrifice the piece at square 12 to insure the draw. There are so many posibilities it would be kind of time consuming to discuss them all.

But, I believe I have set the framework to answer any "what if' questions. Perhaps, if there are still questions, I can offer answers to all of them in the future.
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jkacher
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

I can't imagine how you can draw after 8...17-21 - can you show any line that draws?
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Shotgun



Joined: 10 Apr 2004
Posts: 23
Location: Durham, North Carolina

PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

Does this achieves the draw for White??

1. 2125 3021 2. 1115 1611 3. 15:08 2218
4. 0811 18:09 5. 13:09 21:14 6. 10:17 2622
7. 17:26 23:30 8. 0710 3026 9. 1014 2623
10. 0610 1916 11. 1115 2319 12. 15:24 20:27
13. 1015 2724 14. 1518 1611 15. 1823 Draw!

Shotgun
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jkacher
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

But I move 14. 1418 instead of 14. 1518 and win
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jkacher
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 5:54 pm    Post subject: Conclusion Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

Our Challenge topic started slowly but picked up quite a bit recently when several players attempted to solve it. Charlie Brown came the closest but unfortunately he did not post his solution here on BB. Seems that a simple thing like posting on BB is a major hurdle for many players.
I want to thank all the players who responded to the challenge for their input - and now the moment you all have been waiting for... drums please... The Conclusion is - the position is a Draw! (click here to see the Analysis)
Mr. Gooche (Shotgun) sent some interesting facts - he found this position in 3 of Mr. Kaplan's books -
Shotgun wrote:
Strive To Be Superior p.97 diagram #365, The Art of American Pool Checkers p.144 diagram #265, and The Tactics of American Pool Checkers p.232 diagram #666. In these books he declared the position a win for black. But he never addressed the 7....1208 sacrifice.
What it means is that we must never trust in experts - we must question every move and every position!

Last edited by jkacher on Thu Oct 07, 2004 10:24 pm; edited 3 times in total
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filippov



Joined: 05 Oct 2004
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

This is a very interesting and worth while project; I thought I had found
one of the solutions to a draw, however, Mr Charter very politely pointed
out my error.

I have found Mr Charter to be a very nice person and he has quite an interest in the players on VOG. I have also observed Mr Charter to be rather impatient with some of our lacking in checker interest. As a result Mr Charter often use adjectivies that some may find to be offensive.
I also thought that, but after carefully and patiently hearing Mr Charter out I have found him to be a kind and gentle man, intelectual but lacking in patience.

Mr Charter please don't give up on us, (some of us) although we are slow to move. But with your outstanding leadership and enployment of a little more patience, I believe we will all be happy. Thanks very much Mr charter for your interest and efforts.
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jkacher
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

Thanks for the kind words Mr. Filippov. I am sure you found the solution a lot more interesting after spending some time trying to crack it. What comes easy is easy gone! What you worked at stays with you!
Mr. Shotgun asked for another position to sink his teeth into icon_smile.gif - he likes to have a challenge like this!
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